Traveller-digest      Saturday, August 21 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 990



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse
RE: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse
RE: Baby [OT, but traditional] 
Re: Grav deck plates
Re: Asterisks
Re: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse
Re: Grav deck plates.
Re: Experience System
Plankwell
Over-the-top-silliness
Re: Four Lords of the Diamond (Re: Poul Anderson...Hal Clement)
Re: Hats off to Jesse
Re: Baby [OT, but traditional] 
Re: Four Lords of the Diamond (Re: Poul Anderson...Hal Clement)
RE: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse
RE: Plankwell
RE: Hats off to Jesse
re: Hudson-class Lander (GTL9)
Re: Experience System
Re: Experience System
Re: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse
Re: Plankwell

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:26:57 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse

While I've played Rifts multiple times at BayCon with some friends and had a
blast doing it (You cast smoke?!?  Are you NUTS!?!?!  You're in a VEHICLE
Tony!!!), I don't own any of the books myself, have plans to do so, or have
any artwork from that universe.  I'm pretty busy for the forseeable future
with SJG stuff, not to mention trying to get my "real" Traveller site up
sometime or other.

As for the suggestions to Loren & Marc, I'd recommend contacting them
directly instead of on the list because they're pretty busy folks and may
not catch the message on the list.

Thanks for the comments!!  That puppy would hurt a bit, wouldn't it?  :)

Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Legate
> Legion
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 7:58 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com; traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: Re: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse
>
>
> From: Smart, David J (David) <dasmart@lucent.com>
> Subject: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse
>
>
> >Dave Strebe wrote:
>
> >Good lord, Jesse!
> >
> >_How_ can you keep getting doing such awesome work? I thought the warship
> >stern view was *very* cool but the pic of the spinal mount firing raised
> >the hairs on the back my neck!
>
>
>     Agreed Jesse.  One thing I did notice in your bio, was you
> like Rifts &
> well where can I see some of your artwork for that?
>
> >Jesse, if you ever want to sell prints, put me on the your list of
> >initial customers.
>
>
>     Same here.
>
> >As a side note, why on earth doesn't SJG sell T-shirts with
> these graphics?
> >
> >Hello, Loren? PLEASE?!?!?
>
>
>     Yes, please Loren or Marc, please?
>
> Legate Legion
> ICQ # 8973001
> legate@futureone.com
> http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm
>
> "A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles,
> his friends,
> the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
> mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and
> a stack of
> French porn." - Edmund Blackadder
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:31:53 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse

I'm all for it if anyone's got some ideas...Unfortunately, spare capitol to
carry the project on my own is not something that I currently have available
:)

Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Sword
> Worlder
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 9:09 AM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse
>
>
> Actually, Marc is fairly easy to work with on merchandising
> deals.  If Jesse
> will take a percentage contract on sales there are plenty of
> folks, even on
> this list, who could get them made at a decent cost... as to distribution,
> well, judging from the deal that the host company of this
> listserv just put
> together, we might have a foot in the door (via Rob?) to three big
> distribution outlets.  Not to mention the fact that The Traveller Trader
> would love to carry them, too ;-)
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> The TRAVELLER Domain
> http://www.downport.com
> Colin Michael, Webslinger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com>
> > >As a side note, why on earth doesn't SJG sell T-shirts with these
> graphics?
> > >
> > >Hello, Loren? PLEASE?!?!?
> >
> >     Yes, please Loren or Marc, please?
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:37:21 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Baby [OT, but traditional] 

Congrats!!!  Another born Traveller :)

Best to Tammalyn and Mom,
Jesse



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of William F.
> Hostman
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 2:22 PM
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Subject: Baby [OT, but traditional]
>
>
> Quick announcement: My Wife and I have just been blessed with a baby girl,
> Tammalyn Elizabeth Hostman; 3.335kg, 47cm, 19:38 Alaska Daylight Time, 19
> August 1999.
>
> Wil (who will be unavailable for the next week.)
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:31:10 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Grav deck plates

In mail you write:

>>What is the maximum G rating a deckplate could be set for.
>
> In GT 3Gs at GTL10, 6Gs at GTL12.
>
>>I imagine you can have separate staterooms adjusted separately and such for 
>>special needs, and higher grav for workouts and such, but could you set a
>>high grav setting to inconvenience unwanted guests aboard a starship, 
> assuming 
>>they don't have power assist or batteldress.
>
> Presumably the grav field reaches up to top of the deck and outwards in a
> sphere. So gravity near the walls might be a little interesting if your
> stateroom was set to zero G and the next one to 1G 

Actually, "flat" fields, *between* pairs of plates are a lot more
likely than spherical, for a number of reasons, including the one you
just mentioned. 

But basicly a "confined" field should take a lot less energy. But there
will be a *distinct* "step" between fields of different intensities. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:54:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Asterisks

In mail you write:

> At 01:04 PM 8/20/1999 +0100, you wrote:
>
>>After years of reading the TML, I'd got to the point where I just ignored
>>all the "*" that littered peoples messages.
>
> Since I can't underline, use italics, or wave my hands in email (at least
> not using Eudora); the asterisk has become the standard method of showing
> emphasis.
>
> Maybe Leonard over-uses them, but that's hardly cause for the abuse shown
> him by Mr. Bearden.

Well, since there's no way to convey tone in print (or at least no
"standard" way), I use asterisks to indicate stress. That is, in most
cases where a sentence can be taken more than one way, the difference
between them when spoken is which words are stressed. So I use the
asterisks to indicate the stressed words. 

I'm not talking about the sort of overemphasis that one post mentioned
(put *this* hand in *that* glove). Just the "normal" bit of extra
stress on words in some sentences. Stress that tends to change the
meaning. 

I could use _underlines_, but that requires using the shift key, and is
a lot more awkward to type.

For what it's worth, I enjoy sharing my knowledge, and helping people.
In person, I've gotten compliments on the fact that I don't talk down
to people when doing things like helping them out of messes caused by
"stupid" mistakes on their computers. 

ps. please note that I've only used asterisks once in this message, and
that was essentially a case of quoting someone. And I just hope my
meaning isn't distorted by their absence.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:56:19 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse

From: Jesse DeGraff <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse


>While I've played Rifts multiple times at BayCon with some friends and had
a
>blast doing it (You cast smoke?!?  Are you NUTS!?!?!  You're in a VEHICLE
>Tony!!!), I don't own any of the books myself, have plans to do so, or have
>any artwork from that universe.  I'm pretty busy for the forseeable future
>with SJG stuff, not to mention trying to get my "real" Traveller site up
>sometime or other.


    Bugger, Jesse, the thing is that the universe is great, & I have been
using Traveller Starships in my game.  I am also working on a Traveller
Netbook for Phase World.  If Marc would let me use the Traveller Name & Logo
I would love it.  But, if he will not, that is fine as well.
    Btw, do you mind if I link some stuff on my page to your pics.  I am
working on the Far Trader, the Suliman Scout, etc, etc, etc.

>As for the suggestions to Loren & Marc, I'd recommend contacting them
>directly instead of on the list because they're pretty busy folks and may
>not catch the message on the list.


    I know, pity, they are currently the only people on a gaming ML that
have any ownership of the game, that I know about.

>Thanks for the comments!!  That puppy would hurt a bit, wouldn't it?  :)


    No, I would love to wear it into work.  *weg*

>Jesse


Legate Legion
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:53:32 -0700
From: George Herbert <gherbert@crl.com>
Subject: Re: Grav deck plates.

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> writes:
>Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:
>> 'Grav pong', I think it's called.  Set 1 plate for 2G, the next plate on the
>> floor at -2G, the third plate for 2G, so there's about 4 G shear at the
>> edges.  <grin>  They waddle over the first plate, get slammed onto the
>> ceiling, walk across it for a bit, then get slammed back onto the floor.  Fun
>> stuff, always good for a few laughs & broken bones.
>
>Amateur! The _proper_ way to do grav pong is to CYCLE the plates from
>+2/-2 G continuously so they actually never know which way they're going
>to fall. Or when.
>In TNE the plates cycled fast enough that you could probably play
>Breakout with the poor boarders.
>And that's nothing to turning the grav _sideways_ ;-> suddenly that
>hallway is a 15M shaft and you're at the top. EEEEEEEEyyyyyyooooowwwww
>splat! Then you switch it the other way. EEEEEEEEyyyyyyooooowwwww splat!
>You can continue, but it's just a different sounding SPLAT! after that,
>they don't say much.

Don't forget, put large heavy tools/parts/stuff (spanner wrenches,
spare 5cm bolts, bowling balls etc etc) in storage locker bins at each
end of the corridors, with solenoid activated releases on the bin 
doors so you can key them from the bridge when you initiate the 
grav pong game.  If you make it grav pong plus asteroids, it's much
more fun for the casual anti-hijack gamer...


- -george william herbert
gherbert@crl.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:57:35 -0700
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@home.com>
Subject: Re: Experience System

>How else would you skew a PC so that he improves about 1 skill level per
>game year--like character generation?

You could tie the skill advancement to game time, instead of play time.
Players may accumulate points for play session, but can only redeem them
for skills at the rate of one skill point per character year.

Sure, if the players run marathon sessions they could rack up years worth
of points, but that just means their characters will have to spend years
training or working to make use of their experiences.

And if they don't, so what? Characters should be able to make use of what
they have accomplished without necessarily becoming superheroes. People in
real life build on their past accomplishments, travels, friends, jobs, and
experiences without getting bigger, stronger, and faster as they age.

I played in one guy's homegrown fantasy campaign where experience points
were used for things like die modifiers. You could use your points to add
to your hit or reaction rolls and subtract from your enemies' damage rolls.
Maybe it would be better to let characters gain skill and stats by
studying, surgery, job training, or whatever, and let the points that
players get be used for game effects.

- --
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:58:26 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Plankwell

    Has anyone done pics of the Plankwell, or deck plans for it, & if so,
where are they?

Legate Legion
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:16:24 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Over-the-top-silliness

>From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Hudson-class Lander (GTL9)
>
>I promised Steve I'd name a nuclear-powered lander after him.  Here, then,
...

  To be fair, I was thinking of something a lot more reasonable  - a self-
sanitizing landing zone is nice, but there's no need for it to be most of 
a hundred square kilometers...
        ...of course, it shouldn't hurt if we wait for it to burn out :)
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 02:43:39 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Four Lords of the Diamond (Re: Poul Anderson...Hal Clement)

>The fact that the lead character was a multiple clone with matched
>memories is also beyond the scope of Traveller tech levels.

Frankly, I am surprised that this is beyond Traveller's scope.  We can
almost do it now.  (The cloning).
As far as the guy's mind placed within the skulls of all those people..I'm
not quite sure..


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 02:50:33 -0400
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Hats off to Jesse

Jesse, I humbly beseech thee on bended knee, to re-create that background
for me.  Furthermore, I grovel in hot gravel for the merest chance that you
might consider thinking about this little favor for me.  :)

I've been looking for a background for my desktop that kicks ass, and this
is it.  Its absolutely perfect.
___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@iname.com
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:52:54 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: Baby [OT, but traditional] 

- ----- Original Message -----
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 7:21 AM
Subject: Baby [OT, but traditional]


> Quick announcement: My Wife and I have just been blessed with a baby girl,
> Tammalyn Elizabeth Hostman; 3.335kg, 47cm, 19:38 Alaska Daylight Time, 19
> August 1999.
>
> Wil (who will be unavailable for the next week.)
>
>

Congrats!!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 03:07:58 -0400
From: Michael Peters <travelleri@home.com>
Subject: Re: Four Lords of the Diamond (Re: Poul Anderson...Hal Clement)

Sorry, I was a bit sloppy there. The physical cloning is probably well
within Trav's technical scope. In fact it may even be supported by
canon, Strephon's double was probably a clone.My MT collection is slowly
being built and I haven't found any direct reference to this yet, but it
certainly fits. Why else would the double still be taken for the true
Emperor, even after an autopsy.

The memory exchange was more of what I was thinking of. In GT, with a
little finagleing it could be done. Ultatech supports brain taping. But
in main stream Traveller canon, this would be impossible.

Mike

Jory Earl wrote:
> 
> >The fact that the lead character was a multiple clone with matched
> >memories is also beyond the scope of Traveller tech levels.
> 
> Frankly, I am surprised that this is beyond Traveller's scope.  We can
> almost do it now.  (The cloning).
> As far as the guy's mind placed within the skulls of all those people..I'm
> not quite sure..
> 
> ___________________________________________________________
>  J-Man
>  ICQ# 2843475
>  New Hampshire - U.S.A.
>  Email : j-man@iname.com
>  Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
> ___________________________________________________________

- -- 
Mike Peters
travelleri@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:04:03 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse

>     Btw, do you mind if I link some stuff on my page to your pics.  I am
> working on the Far Trader, the Suliman Scout, etc, etc, etc.


No problem.  I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with someone
providing a link, but I sure don't :)



>     No, I would love to wear it into work.  *weg*


Indeed >:D

Jesse

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:06:48 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Plankwell

Not yet ;)
Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Legate
> Legion
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 10:58 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Plankwell
> 
> 
>     Has anyone done pics of the Plankwell, or deck plans for it, & if so,
> where are they?
> 
> Legate Legion
> ICQ # 8973001
> legate@futureone.com
> http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm
> 
> "A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, 
> his friends,
> the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
> mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and 
> a stack of
> French porn." - Edmund Blackadder
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:10:16 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Hats off to Jesse

Uh,...I kinda' meant a reminder e-mail late Monday or Tuesday, not a current
broadcast to the list :)

Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jory Earl
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 11:51 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Hats off to Jesse
>
>
> Jesse, I humbly beseech thee on bended knee, to re-create that background
> for me.  Furthermore, I grovel in hot gravel for the merest
> chance that you
> might consider thinking about this little favor for me.  :)
>
> I've been looking for a background for my desktop that kicks ass, and this
> is it.  Its absolutely perfect.
> ___________________________________________________________
>  J-Man
>  ICQ# 2843475
>  New Hampshire - U.S.A.
>  Email : j-man@iname.com
>  Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/
> ___________________________________________________________
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:55:57 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: Hudson-class Lander (GTL9)

Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca> writes:

>I promised Steve I'd name a nuclear-powered lander after him.  Here, then,
>is the Husdon-class Lander -- my attempt at a credible landing craft for
>the Sword Worlds. Note the lack of weapons: I felt that after decelerating
>with five 20 kton bombs per second, there wouldn't be much more for the
>marines to do than occupy what was left of the target. :-)

Hmm. and I thought that it was designed to land against overwhelming odds
transmitting 'Game over man'...

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 03:11:03 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Experience System

In my universe three to four months of game time may go by between each
adventure. My adventures generally have two to three sessions each. So a game
year may actually contain 7-10 gaming sessions.

Instead, I award experience points based on what a PC tells me he is doing in
his off time or during his week in jump space. They announce that they are
studying to move from Astrogation 3 to Astrogation 4. I establish a time frame
(generally 100 hours for SL-1, 200 additional hours for SL-2, 300 additional
hours for SL-3, etc.) for the number of hours of study. They must also have an
instructor with a SL-4 in Astrogation and SL-4 in Instruction in order to teach
the course, private lessons or in a class. At the end of this time they roll an
8+ on 2d6 with Intelligence as a DM.

On the other hand I make it easier to obtain a skill level 0 in most subjects.
Just go to a community college for 50 hours, roll 6+ using DMs and you can have
a Admin 0 or Engineering 0.

Alex Ingram

Alex Ingram

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 03:11:03 -0500
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Experience System

In my universe three to four months of game time may go by between each
adventure. My adventures generally have two to three sessions each. So a game
year may actually contain 7-10 gaming sessions.

Instead, I award experience points based on what a PC tells me he is doing in
his off time or during his week in jump space. They announce that they are
studying to move from Astrogation 3 to Astrogation 4. I establish a time frame
(generally 100 hours for SL-1, 200 additional hours for SL-2, 300 additional
hours for SL-3, etc.) for the number of hours of study. They must also have an
instructor with a SL-4 in Astrogation and SL-4 in Instruction in order to teach
the course, private lessons or in a class. At the end of this time they roll an
8+ on 2d6 with Intelligence as a DM.

On the other hand I make it easier to obtain a skill level 0 in most subjects.
Just go to a community college for 50 hours, roll 6+ using DMs and you can have
a Admin 0 or Engineering 0.

Alex Ingram

Alex Ingram

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:30:12 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Dear Loren W., RE: Hats Off to Jesse

>No problem.  I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with someone
>providing a link, but I sure don't :)


    Just wanted to make sure, some people get upset at it.  Thank you.

Legate Legion
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:31:04 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Plankwell

From: Jesse DeGraff <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Plankwell


>Not yet ;)
>Jesse


    So does that mean the Plankwell will soon be up on your page?

Legate Legion
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com
http://www.futureone.com/~legate/index.htm

"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #990
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